for you. "the morning joe" starts right now. [ music playing ] yesterday it was a.j. clemente's first day on the air. things went bad about one second into the broadcast. >> your news leader in high definition. >> [ bleep ] -- >> good evening, nbc north dakota news and he'll be joining the weekend news team as my co-anchor. tell us a little bit about yourself, a.j. >> thanks, i'm very excited. i graduated from west virginia university and i'm used to being from the east coast. >> okay. well, welcome aboard, a.j. >> thanks. >> go for it. >> fatal atv crash happened yesterday in williams county. >> by the way, a.j. was fired

today. >> so when is he coming, alex? >> hey, alex, when are we getting him on? >> we're working on him. i think they're working out -- >> no, i'm serious. >> we are working on it. >> he needs to be on a new show. we can get him a job. >> mr. f-bomb can tell him everything he needs to know. >> i've got to tell you. worse things can happen in your career. >> he can learn from the best. >> he can learn from the best. >> this week, please. >> good morning, everyone, it's tuesday, april 23rd. welcome to "morning joe." i think alex thinks i'm serious. does he understand when i'm serious? >> hey, alex, i got an idea. willie and i were talking about it, we need to get a.j., what do you think? >> that's a good idea. we're going to put it out -- why didn't somebody ask that before? >> the story of -- >> knowing your value, chapter

four. >> exactly. that was so true it hurt. april 23rd. all right, joining us onset, we have former treasury official steve rattner. >> good morning, mika. >> her hair is -- >> it's so shiny. >> it's luminous, radiant. >> go like this when i introduce you. >> you know your friends are meant to be your friends and they're meant to be discreet about some things. >> you're a shampoo model. >> it's fine. >> are we -- >> we have this story and he's talking about. >> great book. >> history, serious. >> 1839 to 1842. >> you know that stretch. >> it's a failed british experiment, right? barnicle, of course, spent years studying the period 1839 to 1842. >> another failed -- >> and he comes on here and we're ready to talk because i want to talk about the parallels between. >> he knows. >> he starts talking about katty

kay, shampoo model in paris. >> she was a shampoo model. >> and talking about how one of his friends was so obsessed with katty, he stood outside her palace. >> yeah. >> and she's 14, and she had this palace. and, you know what, willie, for our other friends that are not here. shampoo model, get in line. watch this. >> tell us about katty kay at age 14. >> you've known her for a long time. >> since age 14, i went to paris to see a friend there and katty was -- >> she was already what? >> a shampoo model. >> guys fell from the sky for katty. >> now you're telling me she started out as a model. >> that was when she was at school. that wasn't a career. one of my friends fell totally for her. couldn't get in because of security. >> yes. >> and ended up on a park bench witnessing a homicide.

>> my god, katty. >> his love for katty kay. >> i think you owe her dinner. i think you're in trouble. >> katty, i want to see the commercials. >> yeah. >> google's failing us right now. >> you've got to have something in your -- >> google is failing us. >> such a shame. we tried, didn't we, willie. >> we'll get to the bottom of this. it's a long show, katty. >> you know what, eric schmitt's coming up later. we're going to ask him why katty's google commercial, shampoo commercial's not on there. i'll also look for -- >> i was glad some of my past didn't make it on to "morning joe." >> all right. >> that's a good way to start the morning. >> i need to google that one too. >> all right. steve gets it. steve's happy. >> don't look under images. so, anyway. >> let's get to the news.

we'll start with the boston marathon bombings investigation. the surviving suspect in that admitted to investigators that he and his brother were motivated by religion but say they were not in contact with overseas terror groups. he was read his miranda rights during an initial court appearance from the hospital that gives the suspect access to a lawyer. and means he will not be tried as an enemy combatant. described as a possible gun shot wound to the hand, the 19-year-old has been described as cooperative during questioning, forced to write his answers or nod yes or no. he told investigators that he and his brother came up with the attacks on their own finding internet resources to learn how to make bombs. he's been assigned three public defenders and could very well face the death penalty. a weekend search of dzhokhar's

dorm room turned up a black jacket and white hat, similar to the surveillance photos. investigators also want to question tsarnaev's wife. she later converted to islam, dropped out of college and had a child with him. her attorney has said she had no suspicions that her husband might be plotting an attack. meanwhile, hundreds of people stood in silence at 2:50 p.m. one week after the bombings. president obama marked the moment of silence from the white house. the u.s. senate held a similar tribute on capitol hill. it is still unclear what impact the boston bombings will have on the immigration debate in congress. but the topic of national security is clearly playing a more prominent role in the discussion. things got tense on capitol hill yesterday when senator chuck schumer sparred republican

senator chuck grassley about the future of the legislation. take a look. >> a few ways to improve the bill all for an amendment when we start mark-up in may and let's vote on it. i say that particularly those who were pointing to what happened. the terrible tragedy in boston as a -- i would say an excuse for not doing a bill or delaying it many months oer years. >> i never said that. >> i didn't say you did, sir. >> i didn't say -- >> i didn't say you did. i don't mean you, mr. grassley. >> mr. chairman, i don't appreciate the senator demeaning the witnesses that have come here. >> earlier, senator patrick leahy who chairs the judiciary committee opened the hearing with some tough words for his republican counterparts. >> last week, opponents of comprehensive immigration reform began to exploit the boston marathon bombing. i urge restraint in that regard. refugees and asylum seekers have enriched the fabric of this country from our founding. let no one be so cruel as try to

use the heinous acts of these two young men last week to derail the dreams and futures of millions of hardworking people. >> while a number of republican senators including rand paul are urging the reform process to be slowed in the wake of the boston attacks, other members of the gop see it differently. quite differently. >> so there's the vision, do they get to 60? steve rattner? >> i think they probably do in the end because i think the basic forces that led us to have this immigration bill on the table, the confluence of interest between the republicans and the democrats, i think ultimately prevail. and i think what they're doing now with boston is just a smoke screen. i don't think you can make an argument for why it should delay. i think you could make a better argument for why it should speed it up. get them in the system and know who's there. >> maybe it gets to the senate unlike the gun bill. the background check bill. but the house?

i don't see the republicans in the house moving forward. right now, they probably feel like they've got the president on the ropes. >> the house is still a stumbling block. even if it got through the senate. we knew it was going to face a tougher time, right? >> right. >> and the same is true of the immigration bill, but there is this overarching self-interest, in which the leadership realizes and will really try to push with the rank and file members of the house in a way they weren't ever going to do with a gun bill. they're going to try much harder to get immigration through because this is a survival issue for the party. and they know if they don't do something in the long run, they're not going to be a majority party. >> i don't know if they care about that. you look at the gun bill last week. i'm looking at polls. they're polling mark sanford's district right now. >> he's losing. >> really, you just relax, okay. really conservative. it's a really conservative district. south carolina, about as

conservative as it gets, right? background checks, ppp, which was one of the most accurate polling outfits over the last couple of years. ppp took a poll. look at this, in south carolina. >> yeah. amazing. >> in south carolina, my republican brethren sitting on the hill listening to the 7%, praying to your wayne lapierre doll. in south carolina yesterday, a poll comes out, 86% of south carolinans, and south carolina won support background checks on criminals, terrorists and the mentally ill. mitt romney won this district by 18 percentage points. you all have made a foolish,

foolish decision. and you better hope that you get a chance too fix it before the 2014 elections because another poll in this district that mitt romney won by 18% in this ppp poll said that by a two to one margin, voters were less likely to vote for republicans in the future because of their vote on background checks. i've said it all along. i've warned the nra from the beginning, give a pass on this legislation you've supported before. don't put your feet in cement because you're going to get knocked over. you're going to get beaten to a pulp politically. and you are. can you believe this, willie? >> this is too easy. it's not even risky for you to say. >> who are these fools on capitol hill who bury their head in the sand and are in the minority in one of the most conservative districts in one of the most conservative states in america and go with wayne

lapierre instead of ronald reagan, who are these fools that listen to survivalists and cower in the corner and allow al qaeda members to have more readily access to weapons? who are these people? >> there are a lot of them. >> there are. >> we showed their names last week. >> they're democrats. they're republicans. >> you would see a lot more of them if there was a vote in the house, as well. we said this is a 90/10 issue. we've been saying this for months and months and months. and not just because it's swayed by people in manhattan or washington or chicago or hollywood. if you go inside south carolina and it's an 86/12 issue, that tells you everything you need to know. and yet, 41, i think was the number. 41 senators who voted against it. went against the 86% and south carolina's first. >> mika, i said it, people may not believe me. they'll believe me when they get voted out next year. but my nra friends i've grown up

with in southern baptist churches in mississippi, alabama, florida, northwest georgia, they all to a person over my 50 years, my friends call me up and they say -- >> right. >> you're right, joe. you're right. background checks, let's make it harder for terrorists and criminals to get the guns that i used to go hunting and to protect my family. i play by the rules. make them play by the rules. >> you would think. >> and yet wayne lapierre is running republicans and conservative democrats around by the nose. and he's going to lead them off the political path. >> do you think it's all wayne lapierre or something else going on here? >> i think what's happening is this is a 90/10 issue at best. the nra has come out, made their strong statement. gun owners have come out, made their strong statements and these congressmen and congresswoman and senators are sitting, the phone's ringing. >> i think they're cradling

their dolls. >> it's a ten to one. oh -- >> kissing it softly on the forehead. >> this is what's happening. >> ten calls are coming in background checks for every one. big deal. are they too stupid to figure out that the 90% actually are at work making money, creating jobs? well, the 8%, 9% of the survivalists are sitting at home. looking for black helicopters in the sky and calling over and over -- yes, that's right, you were the extremist wing of the nra, you are the minority. you are going to get republicans and democrats beaten. after that, you're going to lose and you're going to lose bigger. bigger than you ever imagined before. they could have given a little. this is going to cause a backlash that's going to make them lose in a big, big way. i warned them. i'm a second amendments guy. i warned them.

sometimes you have to give a little. >> i think you're definitely on the record with that. now on the other side, and we can play the tape again when they lose. the "new york times" today. take a look at this front page article, is continuing its focus on president obama's roll in the gun debate. yesterday, we brought you that op-ed by maureen dowd who says it shows the president, quote, still has not learned how to govern. today the "new york times" front page headline, a president who hesitates to twist arms. the article points to an example of senator of alaska, one of the four democrats who voted against the gun bill. asked the administration for a favor on a local construction project. the administration agreed to send the interior secretary to alaska to help negotiate. and now four weeks later, has cast a vote against the administration on the background checks bill and the interior secretary -- >> nope.

>> guess what? she's still on her way to alaska. >> hey, mr. president, let me help you out here, mr. president. send bulldozers up there and tear up the roads. and then bring him to the office and ask him if he wants to help all of americans that are just people in his backyard. seriously, this is so easy. and these democrats, i'm only saying this because he has power over the democrats, this president has got to lean in hard. and he's got to twist arms. and he's got to let every democrat know that they're on his list. and they will be every day. and you know what, he needs to put that list to the democrats up. >> yeah. >> and he needs to put it up right next to his desk and brings him in. hey, come here. come here. did you see this list? it's going to be right here on my desk. every single day. and i'm going to figure out how i can screw you every single day. i am going to drive you into the

ground politically. i'm going to destroy you. it is my goal to make sure that you regret you ever came to washington, d.c. until you switch your vote. and when we get every one of you onboard, we're going to need one republican vote. and then, hell would rain down from above on kelly ayott like it has never rained down from above on anybody. she will quit before she continues to put up with the nonstop abuse we heap on her because we want her to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists. we want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, out of violent offenders' hands. we want to protect america with this small measure that does absolutely nothing to infringe on the second amendment. >> that's one way to look at it. here's how the white house responded to the criticism. >> by the way, that's not just one way to look at it. that would work. >> i understand that. >> that would work in a new york second. >> i'm showing a little contrast here. because here's jay carney

defending the president's level of participation in the process. >> everybody here was involved in this effort. and everybody here was having conversations with lawmakers and other stake holders. >> you don't think he could've twisted more arms or done more personal one-on-one lobbying in this? >> i think the president spoke to this issue numerous times as you know. >> i know that. >> and he made numerous phone calls and had numerous meetings and his entire team here engaged in this process completely and thoroughly. >> you either get it, katty, or you don't get it. margaret thatcher didn't make phone calls. winston churchill didn't make phone calls, they -- they did that, they did more than that. >> i remember speaking to a republican shortly after the 2008 election. and when president obama came to town and there was the initial outreach, the republican party. and this republican said to me, he's doing the wrong thing. he should take a party on the

knees, grab it by the scruff of the neck. this was advice of what a republican strategist would've done to a party that was failing. then he can get through the agenda. but that is so not president obama's -- not the way this president operates. the idea he would go to these democrats who have voted against something that he clearly put a lot of store by, saying, right, you voted against me, i'm going to do everything i can to make your life hell until you switch your vote. i don't see the president doing that. it may be the most effective way to do it, but i don't see that's the way he's going to operate. >> maybe, steve rattner, he should do that for the families of newtown. >> first of all, margaret thatcher and winston churchill didn't have to make phone calls. if they didn't get their way -- >> didn't stop her. >> that's true. she had to make phone calls. but the point is there were

consequences if they did not support the government. they would have to have elections, they might lose their seats. here, there's no real power the president has over it other than yelling at them, screaming at them, taking away their bridges. these four democrats are up for reelection next year and so they believe -- >> one of them is not up until -- >> heidi's not, you're right. three of the four. >> i'll tell you what, for the three that are up next year, you said the dnc is not going to support you. >> why is that in the end good for the democratic party to have three more republicans in the senate? >> well, it's called a bluff. you push them to the wall as far as you can push them to the wall. you make their life as difficult as you can make it. >> your argument is they didn't do that. he could've pushed these guys further? >> lose the majority. >> how about that? >> what do you think? do you think he did it? >> he has a style -- >> do you think he threatened them? >> no, i don't think he threatened them. >> do you think he said i'm going to pound your political bones to dust and laugh as it

blows away in the wind. >> that's a little hard to imagine the president doing that. >> it probably is. he should've done it. >> you asked about immigration in the context of the gun debate. and i think the reason that immigration has a stronger chance of passing is there is no nra equivalent for immigration reform. you've got businesses lobbying for immigration reform. >> right. >> you don't have that strong voice and that strong lobby group saying, right, we must never do this. >> but the nra, it's so funny. the nra on this issue represents 7% of americans, willie. >> they're like jordache jeans. they are, like '80s. >> they are the jordache jeans of -- mika, i don't think anybody's worn them since 1970. >> my point. >> are those out now? >> i hope they're not. >> joe has a cupboard full of them. >> i'm going to redo my entire closet, starch them. >> what you're saying, joe, is that the power of the nra

politically is overstated in the press, which is to say if a congressman went back, if he'd voted for universal background checks and goes back to his district in south carolina and said i know the nra's going to spend a lot of money to beat me, i did something that 86% of you thought was right. >> i know people hate when i say back when i was -- but you know what, experience is actually a pretty damn good teacher. in 1994, the nra worked against me nonstop. i was the most conservative district in america said jerry folwell, tons of gun owners. i took them on. and i got 62% of the vote. first republican elected in that district since 1873, in that region. and i beat the nra. and afterwards, i said you guys lied, you -- you slandered me. still going to vote with you on your issues. but don't expect any favors in the future.

and the nra's powerful. but they're powerful because they don't have members that don't say to them, hey, listen, i'm not going to be with you on this issue. you've got terrorists who are on the fbi most wanted list telling people in my district that our background check system is actually a boon for terrorists. you've got to give me slack on this one. and it's the members' fault. they should have pushed back to the nra, it would have taken a couple of them to say, no, come on, wayne. i've been with you nonstop, you're being a kook here. you're hurting yourself. if you want to come to my district and try. if you want to come to my district, campaign against me because i voted this way, go ahead. it's going to end really, really bad for you. i've had that conversation with another activist that a lot of people know, and he said, you know, if you vote this way, i'm coming to your district. i said, really? well, i'm going to make fun of you for winning my district by

75%. i'm going to show people how weak you are. you're going to come to my district and you know what he said, okay, we'll give you a pass. everybody was weak here. the president was weak, congress was weak. everybody was weak. >> how much did those senators go back to their states and say, this is something we need to do? it's not popular, it's going to be difficult, but we need to do this for the good of the state. >> i guess they didn't feel that way, katty, i guess they felt they don't want rapists and other types of people to have background checks and maybe not be able to purchase guns. that's what they want. that's what they stand for right now. >> that is what -- >> that is what they stand for. make no mistake of it. do we have the video of the terrorist who is on the fbi most wanted list? >> because these are the people -- >> this is who -- >> the people who voted no are in line with this terrorist who is advocating how you can get a gun in the u.s. easier than anywhere else in the world.

so if you think of the democrats voted and the republicans have voted no, definitely think of this person too. >> you're on this guy's side and he thanks you. roll the tape. >> in the west, you've got a lot at your disposal. let's take america as an example. america is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. you can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check and most likely without having to show an identification card. so what are you waiting for? >> paid for by the democrats and the republicans that voted against criminal background checks. coming up next on "morning joe," google's executive chairman eric schmidt will be here. i hope they're proud to cower in the corner. also author jeremy scahill with a new book and corresponding documentary "dirty wars," and

eugene robinson and pete williams. on why he doesn't work for cnn. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> morning, everyone. we have two storms to talk about today. you'll need your umbrellas in the numerous locations. let's start with the east coast. there's a large storm forming off of eastern north carolina. this is not going to affect most areas in the mid-atlantic. just up there in new england. far enough offshore that a lot of the heavy rain is going to be confined into eastern new england. here's what i'm talking about. notice the rainfall predictions have very little if anything from philly to baltimore to d.c. but do produce up to 2 inches of heavy rain in boston through cape cod. from late this afternoon tonight into tomorrow morning. be prepared for that in eastern new england. so today's forecast, the rain will develop during the day in boston, out on long island a few showers, but i think new york city remains dry. buffalo to pittsburgh, you'll have clouds increasing with showers later tonight. now to the flooding story. this was a great picture from

yesterday. this is grand rapids, the grand river, this is an office building in the downtown area with the museum behind it, and yes, that is a fish swimming outside her office window. they said it was a little small mouth bass. the illinois river is cresting around peoria. that's going to dump into the mississippi river where the river levels are still very high and, unfortunately, it's going to rain hard as we go throughout the day today. already raining hard and it's a cold rain from kansas city heading for chicago and st. louis, maybe up to another inch in the flood zone. so, again, if you're traveling today, best chances for airport delays, chicago, st. louis and kansas city and then later today into tonight with that heavy rain and wind in areas of boston. we're looking green, beautiful shot there of the white house. the green grass, the trees are on the leaves -- the leaves are on the trees. whatever. green is universal. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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i'm going to take a look at the morning papers and we'll talk about it later. all right, 30 past the hour, the "new york times," the french embassy in tripoli was struck by what officials believe was a car bomb early this morning. two guards were injured, but no one was killed. it's the first attack of its kind in libya's capital since the ousting of moammar gadhafi's regime. willie? from our parade of papers, the buffalo news, two men linked to al qaeda accused of plotting to derail passenger trains in canada. officials say men had received direction from al qaeda in iran. there's no evidence so far showing their backing was state sponsored. canadian police say the men were targeting a specific route, one that could've continued into the united states.

they did emphasize the public was never in any imminent danger. the los angeles times, the tsa has delayed a plan allowing passengers to carry small pocket knives on to planes in a letter to employees yesterday, tsa chief john pistole said he planned to temporarily maintain a ban on knives after meeting with a security panel. >> that's good. >> the policy change was scheduled to take effect on thursday. >> willie, looks like those bayonets we were hoping to bring back -- >> that's a good call. >> we're going to have to ship them fedex. >> you check those, that's all. usa today, the sequester cutbacks may be visible now to the public. hundreds of flight delays yesterday at new york's three major airports caused by a combination of high winds and short staffing due to last month's automatic budget cuts. that led to delays of more than 90 minutes for arriving flights, about 1,500 controllers or 10% of the air traffic controller workforce were required to take an unpaid day off on monday.

the "new york times," yesterday new york city officials revealed a proposal to raise the legal age to buy tobacco from 18 to 21. the new law would not prohibit people under 21 from possessing or smoking cigarettes. if passed, the measure would be the strictest limit on tobacco of any u.s. city. awesome. >> you kind of wonder when the mayor is going to pass a law that is going to require each new yorker to read at least 30 minutes of poetry. >> no. this is good. >> that one i would not expect to happen. >> this is what we need. we actually don't even need anybody buying or smoking cigarettes and getting sick from it and getting other people sick too. >> mika, can i point something out? >> sure. >> the matrix awards yesterday. women in communications. mike barnicle's wife introduced by mika brzezinski. >> oh, look at her. mika did a great job. and you know, ann did pretty

damn well herself. >> ann was amazing. there's martha stewart. there were impressive women there. but i had the great honor of -- this is funny. i had the great honor of introducing ann. and they asked at one point for last year's matrix winners to stand up and barnicle stood up. >> i was wondering when mike barnicle stood up. >> he just did. >> can barnicle win that thing? no, mika made a great point. everybody who, you know, mika wrote her book several years ago, couple of years ago about -- >> no, i wrote "knowing your value." >> "knowing your value." >> you make a good point. >> and cheryl samberg rewrote "knowing your value." and mika made the great point that before "knowing your value" and before "lean in" copied "knowing your value," you had ann quietly working around the clock with her head down.

ann knows her value. >> she does. >> she scares me she knows her value so much. mika does this great introduction and everybody's tearing up, i thought it was wonderful. and she had trouble writing the introduction because she respected ann so much. >> i was nervous. >> she was nervous, which made the introduction more moving. >> oh, no. >> and everybody was tearing up and ann got up and was like, well, mika, if i knew you were going to have so much trouble writing my introduction, i would have written it myself. >> that's our ann. thanks for nothing, mika. >> it's an honor to be there. it was fun. >> it was really -- there were so many impressive -- >> it was amazing. >> it was awe-inspiring. >> coming up on "morning joe." former president george w. bush is back in the spotlight as his presidential library is set to open. the national journal is here to discuss the legacy of the 43rd president. more "morning joe" when we come back. [ male announcer ] ah... retirement. sit back, relax,

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time for sports, game two, clippers and grizzlies end of the fourth quarter, clock ticking down, clippers up two points. mike connolly with the ball,

ties the game 13 seconds to play. final seconds, chris paul. >> oh, yeah. he's great. >> with the ball. top of the key. what's he going to do with it? getting bumped. >> look at that. >> and floats one off the glass at the buzzer. clippers win. >> wow. >> l.a. takes a 2-0 lead in that series. the nets a one-point game heading into the second half, chicago opens it up a little bit. blown out by brooklyn in game one. jimmy butler with a slowdown, battling through a painful foot injury he's had for a long time. that series is tied at one game apiece. former auburn head coach is lashing out at media reports. accused the football program of ignoring rules. he called his former school the most scrutinized and vilified program in college football. >> for good reason.

>> meanwhile, the university is officially responded to reports of academic fraud and benefits for football players and an open letter. an investigation found no evidence of wrong doing. and joe, that should be good enough for you. >> well, knows a lot about ncaa football. and he tells us that the road to baghdad airport is still being controlled by forces and that auburn -- hey, by the way, we've got to correct something here. >> yeah. >> we made that mistake yesterday. >> when you say we -- >> yeah, you. >>. >> accusing chris of starting world war ii. he wasn't alive then. katty it appears, mika was not a shampoo model. >> well, i think she should have been. >> don't put her in that box. >> it's amazing how they get their facts wrong.

>> your hair is awesome. >> you were more than just that, right? you were a model. you were a model. not a shampoo model. right? >> yeah, all the way through college. it was that or waitressing. >> not a shampoo model, right? >> no, they rejected me. >> you know what this is like for me, right? >> have you seen, no, there's no -- that's not a hope. >> okay. >> hand model. >> i was -- i was a foot model through college. you know -- >> joe, joe, no one wants to know this. >> i was a jordache jeans model. >> that was a tough audition. >> i'm going to be sick actually right now. >> you know what, though, i never let anybody call me a foot model. it's limiting. don't put us in a box. >> it's really early for the feet. >> that's why you don't want to

be called foot model. it's not just about -- >> stop. >> should we do news now? >> joe, you're not just another pretty face, joe. >> that's right. i've got a foot that made millions for me. >> this is part of a conversation that's not working. >> do you know what's coming up next? he tells "usa today" that legacy doesn't need defending. george bush said that, and we're going to ask john fournier to defend it anyway. good luck. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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number nine, keep mispronouncing your own name, number eight, weather man tells you to expect an 80% chance of unemployment. number five, no one appreciated your walter cronkite impression. number four, last story of the broadcast announced a job opening for news anchor. number three, received congratulatory phone call from sue simmons. >> at 11:00, pay more at the grocer, but getting less, we'll tell you how to get the most. what the [ bleep ] are you doing. >> beautiful moment. and the number one sign your first day as a news anchor didn't go well, aspire to be the next ernie anastos. >> takes a tough man to make a tender forecast. >> that's me. >> okay. >> all right. joining us now editorial director -- >> ron fournier.

great to have you backen on the show. >> great to be back. >> george bush says his record doesn't need defending, but you're going to defend it anyway. >> that's harder than being a foot model, joe. >> let me tell you something, nothing's harder than being a foot model. >> i am a shampoo model currently. >> don't demean those of us in the industry. you write about former president george w. bush's thoughtfulness. you mention a note he wrote. and in part you say this, quote. >> okay, bush's note spoke volumes about his respect for the office of the presidency. he was touched by the small measure of respect we showed for our country. he remembered names of spouses and children of his staff and insisted that hard work at the white house not be an excuse to let family life suffer. his record as commander in chief will be a long debated as it should be. bush insisted upon meeting u.s. troops and their families in private so he could give them

undivided attention for as much time we spend understanding our president's policies and politics, relatively little effort is spent trying to understand them as people. we mythologyize them as candidates denying our leaders the bond that soothes mere mortals, benefit of the doubt. wow. >> what a great line. >> i had to look up soothe. >> it makes you think. >> george w. bush who has been demonized and governed through some of the most divisive years in a century. >> he's going to be remembered and judged by his response to 9/11, response to katrina, response to the war in iraq based on bogus intelligence and justifiably so. >> and the september 15th meltdown in 2008. >> definitely. >> bill clinton's going to be remembered for lewinski.

what i tried to do here, though, is pull back the lens a little bit. let's hope these men and women are men and women. most people i cover are in it for the right reason. and in little ways and big ways, at least the three presidents who i have covered have done things outside of the limelight. showing respect for the office, to pay back to the people who got them elected. >> what is george w. bush counting on long after he's gone to sort of heal his legacy? i know a lot of what he believes is he'll be given credit perhaps by a generation or two from now for avoiding another attack after september 11th. he's got that big piece of steel from the world trade center at the new library. that's a center piece of it. is that what he's pointing toward? >> yeah, that tells you basically what he and his

supporters hope. and i think there's something to that. i think 50 years from now we'll look back on 9/11 and the actions that the government took to prevent another attack. and some of the things to chip away at civil liberties in the 9/11 attacks and part of his legacy. >> you look back to harry truman the bush administration or some bush people talking about bush leaving office at 22%, 23%. truman was hated by everybody, conservatives, liberals. >> democrats. >> starting the cold war, others hated him for not being fdr. you go back and look at what he did from 1945 to 1950. he shaped the post cold war world. he set up -- he set up a defense structure that cold war started with harry truman and ended with ronald reagan. and now he's considered one of the near great presidents. >> i've always found it fascinating how in realtime we build up and tear down presidents. historians do the same thing.

there was a time period 20 or 30 years when historians were giving truman not much credit and there was some revisionism in the late '90s. and we've seen it with grant, with polk, we'll see it with other presidents. >> right. and you look at george bush and 30, 40 years from now, obviously our pearl harbor is 9/11. and a lot of people, historians going to say america wasn't attacked again during the rest of his term over the next seven years. and painted in broad colors, broad strokes, he's going to be judged first and foremost for that. >> what's going on in the aftermath of boston. barack obama has to start worrying about his legacy and isn't going to be enough. does he want his legacy to be i failed? are there going to be any excuses big enough for history.

he's got to figure out how to get some of the stuff done beyond had health care reform. >> first, we'll be covering the opening of the bush library tomorrow. still ahead on "morning joe," pete williams brings us the latest on the charges against the boston bombing suspect. don't go away. we'll be right back. we went out and asked people a simple question:

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tomorrow on "morning joe," the star alan alda will join us on the set. >> i remember him more from see you same time next year. >> and up next, eugene robinson joins the conversation. great op-ed on the hypocrisy on capitol hill when it comes to protecting our citizens from terrorism. >> little known fact, gene robinson, also foot model. >> and on "m.a.s.h." >> more "morning joe" in a moment. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe," pretty shot of washington. it is really time to wake up. if you haven't, you need to get moving. >> you really don't. >> steve rattner. >> well, actually, i say stay in bed because the traffic's terrible. watch a little more of "morning joe." much better to just sit and watch the show in bed. and certainly would be good. >> off to the traffic. >> yeah, after the traffic. >> why don't you do the show from bed one day? >> that would be a john and yoko thing. there you go. >> katty kay and joron fournier are still with us. associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. your latest column titled "guns

and terrorism" a double-barrelled standard. and you write in part this, imagine what our laws would be like if the nation were losing 30,000 lives each year to islamist terrorism. do you think for one minute that a young man named alababdullah hussein would be able to go to a gun show and buy an ar-47? would the nra still argue as it essentially does now that those thousands of lives are the price we must pay for the second amendment? when we say never again about terrorism, we mean it. when we say those words about gun violence, obviously, we really don't. >> and of course, gene, the intersection between your alternate reality and where we live now is the fact that we actually have a guy on the fbi most wanted list that says come to america and get guns, we

don't have a tough background check system and kill a lot of americans. >> yeah, right. it just seems so obvious. and obviously you don't belittle or demean tragedies by comparing them, but does this make any sense to you? it doesn't make any sense to me that we will go to every length to avoid terrorism as we should and to stop it at the source and to prevent terrorists from getting the kinds of weapons and access they need to commit those awful acts. yet, as far as guns are concerned, we as a society and i just don't think you can blame the u.s. senate or its rules or the founders and their decision to give senators to every state regardless of the population. you can't narrow it down like that. we as a society aren't willing to do what we, i believe, should

do to prevent the gun carnage that happens in this country every year. >> i think we may this time, ron. here we have a poll earlier today from south carolina. >> yep. >> mark sanford's district. an extremely conservative district. mitt romney won it by almost 20 points. it's a plus 20 republican district. ppp took a poll earlier this week there, 86% of people in that very republican district support criminal background checks, background checks on terrorists. >> what is going on? >> background checks on the mentally ill. 86% in gene's home state of south carolina. this is -- the republicans and some of these democrats have left the rest of america so far behind in their extremist stance, it's mind boggling. >> and there will be prices to pay. >> there will. >> i covered a state years ago,

arkansas, i guarantee you, someone from the democratic party is going to -- or from the antigun lobby is going to come after mark prior. the there's a reason why senator n leandlan voted on one side of this. it's almost important for that base for mark prior in arkansas. they're going to be able to hit these guys especially in the democratic party who voted against president obama. if obama wants to do it, he can make these folks pay. or mike bloomberg. >> that's the point also we were making earlier, steve is, yes, they want to keep the seats. but if the white house stands to the side during a tough primary fight in the democratic party, i sure as hell would if i were the president of the united states. okay. we'll let the people decide. you voted against what, 98% of the democratic party and your

state want it, you get yourself reelected in the primary. sends a powerful message. >> and max baucus is also going to face a tough fight in montana. and i think people think he could well lose. look, i think it's a tough decision to the white house on the one hand do you want to keep democratic seats, or on the other hand, do you want to show there's a price to pay for not doing the right thing? in the case of mike bloomberg, there's no ambivalence. it's very clear what the view is of all of this. people should pay a price. and i have no doubt that he's going to do his best to see they do. >> the president is going to lean on them hard and they're going to pay an extraordinary difficult price for this vote. in my opinion, don't you think the president pushing these people hard would make a big difference? >> i guess the equation they're going to weigh up, so i face a

primary fight, what happens to me in the general. say i survive that primary fight and stood up for gun control and i'm in a conservative state, can i still win the actual election. >> these are criminal background checks that 90% of your people support. >> you could win in arkansas in a general election by supporting a background check. >> 85% support -- >> the assumption has been that those numbers are not irrelevant, but when it comes to actual votes, the 10% vote on this. are you suggesting from your reporting in arkansas that actually, people who are in favor of gun control are going to vote on it? this is going to be a voting issue for them that gets them to the polls? >> somebody like mark prior, a democrat in arkansas doesn't need to get people to vote for it.

he needs to put a vote against it. >> when you start talking about a 90/10 issue, suddenly we're not talking about, hey, which percentage is more fired up to go out and vote? >> yeah. >> when you start talking about -- you're talking about the political tidal wave that will sweep people to the side. and, again, i'm surprised just how shortsighted and stupid so many of these people were. and you know what, that's a word i don't usually use. but it was politically ignorant they made out of fear. you're going to pay a political price. this is not going to go away. not today, not tomorrow, not next year. >> no, i think you're absolutely right, joe, at 90/10, you can have an enthusiasm gap and 10 still loses. and you don't get to fight a difficult general election unless you get past a primary. so you've got to win the primary. i think democrats are going to

vote on this issue. and i think senators ro voted against background checks all four of them, frankly, you know, could potentially have problems in their next run. >> you have to think they considered this but didn't go get that extra nudge for someone else. >> this is my question, we discussed it last hour a little bit. if we don't think the nra really has the ability to punish people. if it's a 90/10 issue, recognize that the 10 feels more strongly than the 90, but 90/10 is a good margin of safety. and you're saying that these people are being stupid and shortsighted. why are they being so stupid? they're not all that stupid. >> because they're living in the past. they're living in fear. they are thinking the world they lived in before newtown is the world they live in after newtown. as i said on this show, after newtown, this changes everything and it does.

the group changes everything. whatever the nra puts out, there'll be more money on the other side, and more money on the other side backed with a 90% support, that changes everything. they'll have to see two, three, four high profile people taken down in this issue. >> i agree with all of that. they don't understand all of those things, which are pretty self-evident, to me. >> i think it's fear. >> i think they are, frankly, so stupid they didn't understand. there are -- there are other democratic senators and some republicans who would've had to make that calculation too and who did see that things are different now with the money. with after newtown. frankly, after all the violence

that we see, this -- the terrorism issue, and what happened in boston does not help the opponents of gun control and background checks in my view. and we'll find out in the fullness of time how they got their weapons. but, again, this is a hole in the system that's got to be plugged. i think there's a general realization that's got to happen. >> the vote that surprises me the most is kelly ayotte up in new york. you have a republican in the state that's been trending democratic for some time. think she's going to pay a heavy price. >> politics is usually a step behind the rest of the country. and i think in this case, they are. also, look ahead beyond 2014. look at 2016 and who will be up

then and what the make-up of the electorate is then. this is an issue that's much more ripe to have folks who want some regulation of guns, not gun control, not undermining the second amendment. i think by 2016, this would be a very ripe issue. >> and the big question is, how does this impact a party in the future? remember me telling the story about rick santorum and the republican primary and when we were talking about contraception. they were talking about these state sanctioned vaginal probes, you hate to say that early in the morning, and you had women across the country pull away from the republican party here. >> recoil, actually. >> this is a great example of extremism. >> yeah. >> on a gun issue, that a lot of people in the middle wouldn't focus on. but because of the extremism, because you have al qaeda members saying, you know what,

go to america and kill as many americans as you can because they don't have good background checks, that suddenly pulls people in on the gun issue that were never there before. >> agreed. >> it's going to happen. you think there's going to be another vote because i think people are going to. >> you look at the number of people moving into suburbs and where they stand on gun control issue. you see how much more in favor they are in some kind of a practical solution to this. less ideological. you have to think, you know, the regional shift of the country is going to change some minds. >> also, the trend too, not so long ago. 50% of homeowners had guns in their houses. now it's down to 33%. those trends are going to continue as you're right, more people move to the suburbs. >> we can think of -- >> the culture is changing.

>> -- that these lawmakers voting this way would consider that, as well. we need to move to the latest on the boston bombing investigation. and joining us now from washington, nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. pete? >> mika, good morning to you, how are you? >> we're good. we're just looking at the front pages of most of the papers. it looks like the justice is underway in a hospital room. and there's even talk of the potential death penalty being a part of that, as well, front page of the "daily news" we're holding up now. what do you know? >> these two charges they've filed against tsarnaev. the attorney general has to get involved, there's a whole process. if the government did seek the death penalty against him, he's 19, remember, he'd be by far the youngest person in the federal system against whom the death penalty was sought in modern times. >> and what did they learn in the hospital with him? i know he had, i think, at least three public defenders with him.

how was that executed? and what were they able to get out of him in terms of information leading us to understand more about how this all came about? >> well, that was during the question before the public defenders came into it which was during the monday hearing in the hospital. he has been cooperative, sometimes by nodding, sometimes by writing notes. he can't speak well because of the injury in his throat. but they say he has told him that he and his older brother were not in touch with any overseas terrorist groups. he claims that they came up with this bombing plan on their own. they were motivated by religious fervor and got their instructions on how to make the bomb from the internet, specifically from an online magazine called "inspire," the one published by al qaeda. and it has twice included articles on how to build bombs using pressure cookers. and that's what the devices in

boston were made with. and these articles in "inspire" have offered a design that turns out very similar to the way their bombs were built. >> pete, it's katty here, does the fact he was saying no outside organization, they weren't linked up with a terror plot to do the boston bombings, does that now squash the whole argument of him being tried as an enemy combatant? i know the white house has said he's going to be tried in a federal court anyway, would that nullify that argument? >> well, i understand the argument from some republicans they're not arguing he be tried as an enemy combatant. they concede the fact he cannot be tried as a combatant. there's a law called the national defense act of 2012 that says specifically u.s. citizens cannot be tried in military tribunals. they're arguing he should be questioned as an enemy combatant and then turned over to the civilian justice system.

i don't think this will change their view. and, of course, what the fbi says is this is what he has told them. but they have to now verify this. and of course, they are working to do that. >> all right. nbc justice correspondent pete williams. once again, thank you very much. >> you bet. >> and eugene robinson, thank you, as well. we'll be reading your column in the "washington post." >> and let me ask you quickly. are you surprised your home state of south carolina won on this background check issue is an 86/12 proposition? >> i am not surprised. i am floored. i know that district. and look at it on the map. i mean, if it's 86/12 in that district, then this ought to be over. and politicians ought to take a look at that because that's a very, very conservative swath of the state. and there you have the numbers. it's incredible. >> should be an ominous sign, mika, for democrats and

republicans who voted against background checks for criminals, terrorists, and the mentally ill. >> you would think. still ahead on "morning joe," google executive chairman eric schmidt will join us on the set. we hope he brings us some of those google glasses. joe, you should wear them. >> or money. >> i'll wear the money. >> out with a new documentary "dirty wars," an exclusive first look at that trailer. and up next, chuck todd joins the conversation along with lisa myers live at reagan national with the latest on how the sequester is causing big headaches at major airports. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. >> it's important to give credit where credit is due. no one has been more deserving than nbc. props to pete williams who did a great job when he was covering this terror attack. brian williams did a great job, serena williams i thought was very good. robin williams, will.iam.

all right. we're on day three of furloughs for air traffic controllers. the impact of a sequester is now becoming visible to the public. joining us now, senior investigative correspondent lisa myers. good morning, what are we seeing? >> well, mika, so far we're seeing hundreds of delays around the country. some for more than 3 1/2 hours in los angeles. the airlines are warning that if these furloughs continue, 1 out of every 3 travelers could see major delays or cancellations during peak travel season. delays at laguardia, newark, and

charlotte, blaming staffing and weather saying staffing challenges led to ground delays and more spacing between flights around the country. it's the first time that the public has felt the impact of across the board budget cuts from the sequester. >> and certain places, i believe cutbacks should not be happening. >> i think it's horrible, there's enough problems dealing with delays and security and weather and other things when you're flying, i think they should furlough the president and congress. >> the faa claims it had no choice but to put 15,000 controllers on unpaid furloughs, which means 10% fewer of them working each day. that could mean delays of 3 1/2 hours in atlanta, two hours in chicago and 1 hour and 20 minutes in laguardia. the airlines are furious and argue there are other places to cut. >> the air traffic controllers have never been furloughed. they should not be furloughed now. >> the controllers complain

they're being used as political pawns. >> it's the piece of sequestration that affects americans the most. and i don't think that it's fair that air traffic control, particularly air traffic controllers are being used as a pawn. >> ray lahood has a message. >> tell them to fix sequester, and this will go away. >> the administration seems to be saying that any solution to put the air traffic controllers to work must include an overall roll back of the sequester. which does not look like something that's going to happen any time soon. the next few months could be a nightmare for travelers. >> they're not going to fix this problem unless the entire problem is fixed. we've got a $3.5 trillion budget. they can put these people back to work unless they want to make

a political statement, right? >> well, they claim that 70% of the faa's costs are personnel that they had no choice but to furlough the controllers. basically, they're treating the controller just like any other faa employee. not giving them any special preference because they're on the front line. the airlines say it's preposterous. there ought to be room in a budget like that defined other cuts. but i think the most telling thing is the administration did not go to congress and say, look, this nightmare's going to happen, fix this problem at the faa. instead, they're saying seem to be saying that the only way the problem with air traffic controllers is going to be fixed is if congress rolls back the entire sequester. democrats seem to think this is the best leverage they have to get rid of the sequester altogeth altogether. >> using travelers and air traffic controllers and air

safety as political leverage. we'll see how that works out, lisa myers. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. let's go to chuck todd right now, nbc news chief white house correspondent political director and host of the "daily rundown." chuck, do you think if a member of congress decides to put a bill on the floor that takes care of air travelers and air safety by taking money from other areas and shifting it over, do you think the white house would veto that bill? >> i don't know if it would pass, though, first, joe. this idea of hostage taking on capitol hill of an issue in order to get your way, it's become pretty popular. started, we saw it with debt ceiling. that's a high profile way that it was used by republicans on that front. i think, no, i think you have about of the 100 senators there, i think at least 40 different

sequester agendas. so i don't know if this bill could get through without the whole thing being undone and then at that point you could see how dysfunction takes over and they stand in place. i agree, he signs it, not like he would veto it on this front. if we go through say six weeks and the complaints about air travel get louder. i have real doubts it gets through. there's at least four senators i know that have a pet sequester peeve. and they're going to use whatever leverage they can to try to get it undone and so while some care about the air traffic controller issue, others care about the defense part of things. that's where i could see that this comes in. does get fixed or complete and utter inertia.

>> if i were a republican in the senate, i would be putting this bill on the floor and talking about it every day. i mean, you talk about -- i would love to see that says i'm not going to take care of air safety and air travel. i want my pet project taken care of first. you have a lot of people saying they're not going to put a dime back into anything until we deal with the overall budget problem. they have made exceptions to the sequester, an exception for agricultural inspections, i think they made a couple of others. as these delays mount and the pressure gets intense, i wouldn't rule out we're going to see legislation. >> i think this is a problem for president obama. to me, this is the equivalent of a major city the garbage not being picked up. when that happens, who gets blamed? not the city council, the mayor. so every time someone takes a hostage, every time we're affected by sequestration, at the end of the day, i think it's going to affect the president his approval rating.

this fair or not, this is the government he's running. >> well, you know, it impacted him, katty, when terrible things were going to happen, a lot of people -- it's already been caked into the bake that this president wants to use s sequestration to prove his political point. that's what a lot of americans think. and his numbers fell after he lost the sequestration battle. this could be another bad moment in this fight. >> yeah, i took a flight up from d.c. yesterday, it was an hour and a half delayed. that was the first day of this problem. if this carries on, the noise from all of the people who are doing d.c., boston, new york which seems to be the worst corridor hit on this is going to grow. the next time you try to fly down to d.c., you will be furious.

>> when does it work? >> chuck, if you fly from nashville to laguardia, i was just about to say to katty, an hour and a half, that's good. >> okay. i'm walking next time. that's it. >> it's a nightmare. >> you want to know. you want to solve a problem, get rid of laguardia and open an airport that can stay open beyond -- beyond times that the wind is more than 10 miles an hour. >> this is a pet peeve. actually, by the way, what i was -- when we were on there and delayed three hours coming into laguardia, i actually tweeted something and chuck immediately went right back. you can tell laguardia's a pet peeve for chuck. >> yes, and you. >> can i make one serious point? >> by the way, and steve, i want to go to you. but really quickly, our fin

federal structure is so bad anyway. >> okay. >> that throwing this on top of a third world infrastructure makes -- makes it incredibly a pain. >> right, but the infrastructure you see at laguardia what you see, the problem is that we have an antiquated air traffic control system in which we have invested very little money and still operating with ancient technolo technolo technology, it's the only way to track them. if we invested what we should've in the air traffic system, we would have -- may not solve all of chuck's problems, but a much faster, flowing system. >> by the way, if you modernize it, you can cut back on some of the workforce permanently and save money there. that's the other issue. it's very labor intensive because of the issue that steve just described. >> before we go to break, the

president is dining tonight with members of the senate, all women, isn't that nice? >> that's great. >> chuck todd, thank you. we'll see you at 9:00 on the "daily rundown." >> i'm surprised that didn't get ugly just then. >> right. >> that's great. >> we went to counseling. up next, steve rattner has charts on signs of a spring slowdown. more "morning joe" when we come back. but i wondered what a i tcustomer thought? is great, hi nia... nice to meet you nia, i'm mike. what do you drive? i have a ford explorer, i love my car. and you're treating it well? yes i am. there are a lot of places you could take your explorer for service, why do you bring it back to the ford dealership? they specifically work on fords.

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36 past the hour. i like the way ron fournier put it. what are you charting on today? >> we're going to turn charts into a verb. >> it's charting. rattner style, but you're looking at sort of a spring slowdown. is there any good news? or why don't you take us through it? >> well, there's good news, but there's also reasons to be a little bit concerned. we've had spring slowdowns in the past, looks like another one now. they were disappointing, let's look at a couple of other things that were not great and we can talk about why. >> okay.

>> the first thing is new claims for jobless, unemployment insurance. this is a kind of leading indicator of where jobs are going, people who are for the first time coming out and looking for unemployment insurance. and as you can see, it was trending down very sharply throughout most of the fall and the early part of this year. and it's been ticking up to 361,000. so we're going to get another new jobs number in about two weeks. it probably won't be a great one. let's take a look at another indicator, which is retail sales. also something that had been strong. then in march, again, you had a .4% drop, this is the largest drop since june of 2012. i want to be clear as we get to the last one, one month does not a trend make. these are all little signs and whisps that give you reasons to be a little bit nervous.

>> this is an index that comes out once a month and a bunch of different statistics that people view as specific predictors of where the economy is going. and again, you can see while it did go down in august of 2012, we've essentially had six straight months of either flat or up and then we had a down. and, again, we would normally want to see something like three months of a trend before we made too much of this. but the fact is, that's not -- it's not a good news. so the question is, well, why is this happening? we've had -- first we've had soft spots in the economy for the last two or three springs. might be another one of those. but you have had the payroll tax increase go into effect. you've had sequestration go into effect. you have no growth in people's incomes. that was the more disappointing numbers out of the last unemployment insurance report. and if people don't have money, they can't spend money. and finally, we're being affected in the slowdown in europe in particular and the slowdown in the emerging

markets. our export growth has fallen to about zero at the moment because there isn't demand overseas for our products. so it feels like a little bit of a soft spot, but we'll see. >> how much of this is consumer confidence, do you think? >> consumer confidence definitely plays a role. but consumers right now don't have the money to spend. and if they went out and spent, they'd be borrowing money. i don't think -- i think it's a more fundamental problem in a way than consumer confidence. >> steve, my long wait yesterday trying to get up to new york, in the lounge was tim geithner waiting for the flight, as well. i asked him, we're seeing these good signs in the economy, how much of it is the fed pumping money into the system with qe-3, he said, no, it's real, people are buying things and this is a real signs of good news. >> so let's -- just a second on the good news. there's pent up demand. car sales have been very strong, housing is actually quite strong, obviously off a depressed level it's recovering. but there are these other indicators and my basic fear is

that pent-up demand is a good thing except when consumers don't have the money because their incomes aren't going up. it's sometimes hard for them to act on that. so i agree with tim. look, we're not going back on another recession. we're not falling off a cliff. we're not totally dependent on the fed. but we are -- i think we are clearly in a period of slow growth and soft numbers. >> steve rattner, you got through every single chart. >> that's because joe wasn't here. >> and got a nice explanation, as well. steve, thank you. ron fournier, thank you, as well. coming up, the nation's jeremy scahill takes us through america's covert wars in his new documentary "dirty wars" joining us next on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] are you sensitive to dairy?

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i got a strange phone call. someone from the inside was reaching out to me. someone close to the heart of the president's elite force. >> there are hundreds of covert operations. on multiple continents. >> it's hard to say when the story began. >> readings from kabul, afghanistan. >> this was supposed to be the front line on war on terror. there was another war hidden in the shadows. a night raid. >> on your face. >> who were these men who stormed into the home? and why would they go to such horrifying lengths to cover up their actions? >> okay. that was an exclusive look at the trailer for the film "dirty wars." here now national security correspondent for the nation

jeremy scahill, also the author of the book, dirty wars, the world is a battlefield. this looks amazing. let's start, first of all, with the book. and what, you know, the overall unveiling is in the book. what we don't know about what's going on around the world and what we're trying to carry out. >> this book tells the story of how a very popular democratic president barack obama who by trade is a constitutional lawyer expanded some of the most egregious secretive aspects around the world expanding drone strikes, using proxy forces and mercenaries, working with war lords in somalia. and expanding the battlefield that the joint special operations command operates in and also the cia, and also get very in-depth into the story of this u.s.-born radical who was killed in a drone strike in september 2011. i'm not sure many americans know this, but three u.s. citizens

were killed in a two-week period in operations authorized by president obama. and one of the people killed was actually a 16-year-old u.s. citizen who was sitting having lunch -- excuse me, dinner with his teenage cousins and the obama administration has never explained why this kid was killed. he was the son of aulaqi, but his dad had been killed two weeks earlier. this tells the stories of war lords who do the operations for u.s. and al qaeda militants and yemen and elsewhere. and really at the heart of it is the fact that one of obama's enduring legacies when it comes to foreign policy, he has solidified assassination as an essential component of policy. >> they can do it in the shadows, as you pointed out. in the book, i would say there hasn't been a lot of public resistance aside from people like you and others in the press. how have they done this without facing much resistance? publicly or inside the government from people who should be stepping up and

saying, wait a minute, we can't kill u.s. citizens without due process? >> right, i think there's no question that if john mccain had won the election in 2008 or mitt romney had won it in 2012 that liberals would be screaming about this stuff and saying, you know, that -- there would be this thing, war crimes, we should do impeachment and the reality is that i think a lot of people -- and i think this is sincere. a lot of people so fed up with the iraq war, perceived as the sort of crimes of the bush administration they wanted it to end and the obama administration has sold people a bill of goods. the idea that the drone war is actually clean. which is why i call it dirty wars. when you kill people in yemen, pakistan or somalia that aren't attached to terrorism, you're giving people an actual incentive to want to attack the united states. and so if you look at the poll numbers, liberals are very much lock step with the white house right now on this drone issue. no way -- >> stunning. >> no way -- >> that is stunning the same people, many of them calling for george w. bush's impeachment are

calling for a war crimes trial after he left. and yet, again, this white house is actually, like you said, carried on a lot of the bush/cheney legacy in this area and made it far more intense, especially on drone strikes. >> also, one of the stories i do in the book. i was in yemen and somalia and afghanistan and elsewhere reporting the stories over the years. in somalia, i discovered that the obama administration is using a prison that is hidden in the basement of somalia's national security service and cia operatives are actually interrogating suspected militants, this group affiliated with al qaeda. and they're also engaged in renditions. snatching people from places like kenya and taking them to third world countries. one of the first executive orders saying i'm shutting all this stuff down. we've seen cosmetic change. no longer running their own sites in poland and thailand and elsewhere, but they're using other countries to do it.

the program started under bill clinton. and the way it would work then, you would take these people and send them to egypt for mubarak's agents to portugal. >> which actually is you just said torture. we talked -- we call torture by american standards is called child's play by egypt standard under mubarak or talk about somalia. actually, the rendition and the results of it are far more brutal in third countries, third party countries than they ever were. >> that's why i the u.s. did it so you can say, well, we're not torturing people. that's really what's happening under this administration is that you have an outsourcing of part of the kill program and part of the interrogation detention program to these unsavory thug squads in countries around the world. >> and yet again, the same people that were screaming and yelling about gitmo are, as you said, they're supporting the president all the way on these policies. >> what's been interesting is michael hayden and other people that served under the bush administration say isn't it

something we were getting hit for not getting warrants to wiretap people. and yet the obama administration is able to kill u.s. citizens without seeking an indictment or ever explaining to the american people. and these guys don't have a lot of credibility. and for them to say, this issue. i think must be sitting somewhere in his ranch in wyoming saying, man, barack obama is the man because he's able to continue this stuff in a way that a republican wouldn't have been able to. >> describe a little bit what it's like for people living in these drone zones. i think most people have no understanding. some people told me on those borders of pakistan are you living with the sounds of drones overhead all night long. mothers, kids, families knowing that a drone could drop any minute right in your village. >> today something extraordinary is happening on capitol hill. there is a hearing on drone strikes. general cartwright, one of the key officials in shaping the counterterrorism strategy will be testifying alongside a yemeni whose village was bombed last week. i met this young man when he was

in yemen. very, very credible, interesting young guy. he'll be testifying today. what i saw in yemen is that it was increasing support for al qaeda in the areas where we were bombing. some of these tribes that are out in the middle of nowhere, you go in and you bomb it and you aren't explaining to them, we were going after this guy but sorry we hit a bunch of sheep herders, those people are now so angry. it is an enemy by enemy is my friend scenario. a number of civilians have been killed. in a country like yemen that's a place where the united states could have taken a totally different path. long-time dictator had fallen as a result of arab uprisings. i think it was really a place that could have gone a different direction. by intensifying the drone strikes we are are making new enemies. >> and in countries where we haven't declared war. that's thing that stuns me the most. how many countries are we dropping bombs on now where we haven't even declared war? where most americans don't even

know that we're dropping bombs and killing civilians in countries where we aren't engaged in a war. >> i mean president obama conducted one drone strike in yemen that we know of in 2002 which actually also killed an american citizen. then president obama has totally waged an air war on yemen. we have air strikes in somalia. there was an operation that happened in the philippines. i think we spend a lot of time focused on drones. what i'm more concerned about is the expansion of admiral william mcraven forces from the special operations command. president obama has empowered them more than any president in history, this sort of dark ops force has become the centerpiece for obama's strategy. they are a setting up liaison offices around the world. we know everything about the bin laden raid. we know everything about the dog and guns used. there were 20,000 raids like that that year in afghanistan and other countries that we know almost nothing about. i think our future is going to

be looking at cruise missile strikes, covert operations, raids that we probably won't know about an drone strikes are one part of it but i think we make a mistake in focusing too much on drones because this is a full spectrum war that's being waged by the obama administration. >> jeremy scahill, thank you so much. the book is "dirty wars." the film are be out june 7th. >> with a cameo by you guys. >> there you go. >> i can't wait for the royalty check. >> we had to pay nbc for the rights though. >> really! you did, did you? >> yes, we did. willie promised me something but it never came about. >> i talk offline. >>. still ahead, google's executive chairman eric schmidt will be here on the set. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. we had never used a contractor before

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coming up next, how the bombing attacks in boston could impact the fight over immigration an even gun control on capitol hill. we will be right back with more "morning joe." finding out about katty kay's shampoo model and of course, willie. it is not easy. working behind the scenes

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good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city and you really need to get out of bid. >> you know what i'd be doing right now if i were on the west coast? >> i don't want to imagine. nope. time to wake up. back with us on set, we have "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner and the bbc's shampoo model, katty kay. >> luminous. it is radiant. >> go like this! >> isn't that funny? you know your friends are meant to be your friend. they're meant to be discrete about some things.

>> you're a shampoo model. >> so we get the story and he's talking about -- >> great book. afghanistan. >> braarnicle spent years studying -- >> another failed bit of british history. >> we're ready to talk because i want to talk about the farewells -- he starts talking about katty kay, shampoo model in paris. what? >> she was a shampoo model. yes! >> and talking about one of his friend were so obsessed with katty that he stood outside her palace and -- she's 14 and she had this -- you know what, willie? for our other friends that are not here, shampoo, watch this.

>> tell us about katty kay at age 14. >> you've known her for a long time. >> since age 14 i went to to see a friend there. katty was already a shampoo model. >> guys just fell from the sky. >> i think she's a gorgeous intellectual but now you're telling me she started out as a model. >> that was when she was at school. that wasn't the career. i fell totally for her and sat outside her apartment all night. couldn't get in because of security. >> paris, yes. >> ended up on a park bench witnessing a homicide. >> my god! katty! i can't wait to -- >> i think you owe her dinner. i think you're in trouble. >> katty, i want to see the commercials. >> google is failing us. >> you've got to have something in your family archives. such a shame. we tried, didn't we, willie? >> we'll get to the bottom of

this. it is a long show. >> you know what? eric schmidt's coming up later. we'll ask him why katty's googled shampoo commercial -- >> listen, i was just glad that some of the less dubious bits of my past didn't make it on to "morning joe." all right. steve gets it. steve's happy. let's get to the news. we'll start with the boston marathon bombings investigation. surviving suspect in that admitted to investigators that he and his brother were motivated by religion but say they were not in contact with overseas terror groups. dzhokhar tsarnaev has been charged with using a weapon of mass destruction. he was read his miranda rights

from his hospital and he will have access to a lawyer. the 19-year-old has been described as cooperative during questioning. forced to write his answers or nod yes or no. he told officials he and his brother came up with the idea for the attacks on their own, finding internet resources to learn how to make bombs. he has been assigned three public defenders and could very well face the death penalty. a weekend search of dzhokhar's college dorm room turned up a black jacket, a white hat and similar to the one in the surveillance photos he was allegedly wearing. investigators also want to question tamerlan tsarnaev's wife. the couple initially met at a nightclub. she later converted to islam, dropped out of college and had a child with him. her attorney has said that she had no suspicions that her husband might be plotting an attack.

hundreds of people stood in silence at copley square at 2:50 p.m. one week after the bombings. president obama marked the moment of silence from the white house. the u.s. senate held a similar tribute on capitol hill. it is still unclear what impact the boston bombings will have on the immigration debate in congress but the topic of national security is clearly playing a more rom neprominent n the discussion. things got tense on capitol hill yesterday when senator chuck schumer sparred with republican senator chuck grassley about the future of the legislation. take a look. >> a few ways to improve the bill, offer an amendment when we start mark-up in may and let's vote on it. i say that particularly to those who are pointing to what happened, the terrible tragedy in boston, as -- i would say -- excuse for not doing a bill or delaying it many months or years. >> i never said that! >> i didn't say you did. >> i didn't say you did, sir. >> i didn't say that! >> i didn't say you did.

>> mr. chairman within don't appreciate demeaning the witnessing that are coming here. >> earlier senator patrick leahy who chairs the judiciary committee opened the hearing with some tough words for his republican counterparts. >> last week's opponents of comprehensive immigration reform began to exploit the boston marathon bombing. i urge restraint in that regard. refugees and asylum seekers have enriched the fabric of this country from our founding. let no one be so cruel as to try to use a heinous acts of these two young men last week to derail the dreams and futures of millions of hard working people. >> while a number of republican senators including rand paul are urging the reform process to be slowed in the wake of the boston attacks, other members of the gop see it differently. so there's division. do they get to 60?

steve ratner? >> i think they probably do in the end because i think the basic forces that led us to have this immigration on the table, the confluence of interest between the republicans and the democrats i think ultimately prevail and i think what they're doing now with boston is just a smoke screen. i don't think can you make an argument for why it should delay. i think can you make a better argument for why you should speed it up. to bring people out of the shadows, get them into the system. >> the background check bill, the house? i don't see the republicans in the house moving forward. right now they probably feel like they've got the president on the ropes. >> the house is still a stumbling block. even if it had got through the senate, the gun bill, we know that when it got to the house it was going to face a tougher time. the same is true of the immigration bill but there is this overarching self-interest in the republican party which the leadership realizes and will

really try to push with the rank and file members of the house in a way that they weren't ever going to do with the gun bill. they're going to try much harder to get immigration through because this is a survival issue for the party and they know if they tonight do something in the long run they are not going to be a majority party. >> i don't know if they care about them. you look at gun bill last week? i'm looking at polls. they're polling mark sanford's district right now. >> he's losing. >> just relax. a really conservative -- it's a really conservative district. south carolina. about as conservative as it gets. right? background checks. ppp, which was one of the most accurate polling outfits over the last couple of years, ppp took the poll. look at this. in south carolina -- in south carolina, my republican brethren! sitting on the hill, listening to the 7%, praying to your wayne

la pierre doll. in south carolina yesterday a poll comes out, 86% of south caroli carolinan residents support background checks on criminals, terrorists and the mentally ill. mitt romney won this district by 18 percentage points. you all have made a foolish, foolish decision and you better hope that you get a chance to fix it before the 2014 elections, because another poll in this district that mitt romney won by 18% in this ppp poll said that by a 2-1 margin, voters were less likely to vote for republicans in the future because of their vote on background checks.

i've said it all along. i warned the nra from the beginning. give a pass on this legislation you have supported before. don't put your feet in cement because you're going to get knock over. you're going to get beaten to a pulp politically and you are. can you believe this, willie? >> this is too easy. it's not even risky for you to say it. >> who are these fools on capitol hill that bury their head in the sand and earn the minority in one of the most conservative districts and one of the most conservative states in america and they go with wayne la pierre instead of ronald reagan. they go with the 7% insteftd of 94%. who are these cowards that allow al qaeda to have ready access to weapons? who are these people? >> there are a lot of them. we showed their names last week. we put them up on the screen. >> they're democrats! they're republicans! >> you'd see a lot more of them if there had had been a vote in

the house as well. this is a 90-10 issue. we've been saying this for months and months. that's not just because it is suede by people in manhattan or washington or chicago or hollywood. if you go inside south carolina and it is an 86%-12% issue, that tells you all you need to know. 41 i think senators who voted against it went against the 86% in south carolina's first district. >> i've said it. people may not believe me. they'll believe me when they get voted out next year. my nra friends that i've grown up with in southern baptist churches in mississippi, alabama, florida, northwest georgia, they all to a person over my 50 years, my friend call me up and they say -- you're right, joe, you're right. background checks. let's make it harder for terrorists and criminals to get the guns that i use to go hunting and protect my family. play by the rules, make them

play by the rules. yet wayne la pierre is running some republicans and some conservative democrats around by the nose and he's going to lead them right off the political cliff. >> joe, do you think it's all wayne la pierre or do you think there's something else going on here? >> yep. >> all wayne la pierre. >> i think what's happening is this is a 90%-10% issue, at best. nra has come out, made their strong statements. gun owners have come out and made their strong statements. these congressmen and women in senators are sitting in their office. the phone's ringing and it's a 10-1 -- oh, my god. here's what's happening. ten calls are coming in against background checks for everyone -- big deal! they're ginning it up. are they too stupid to figure out that the 90% actually are at work making money creating jobs? while the 8%, 9% of the survivalists are sitting at home

looking for black helicopters in the sky and calling over and over -- yes, that's right. that's right. you are the extremist wing of the nra. are you the minority and you are going to get republicans and democrats beaten and i hope you like it. after that you're going to lose and you're going lose bigger, bigger than you ever imagined before. they could have given a little. this is going to cause a backlash that's going to make them lose in a big, big way. i warned them. i'm a second amendments guy. i warned them. sometimes you have to give a little. still ahead on "morning joe," why rick perry might be right about texas. what america can learn from the lone star state. and what's next for the digital age? that's the topic of a new book by two -- >> you know that's so funny bringing up rick perry. this gives us an excuse.

stick around because i'm sure this story is going to be fantastic on rick perry but you're going to lot of bad lip reading segment that we now have an excuse to play. google executive chairman eric schmidt joins us. that's going to be phone. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> you know where he lives? in a van down by the river. here's the weather. >> just where you grew up, joe. following in your footsteps. good morning, everyone. the water is still high in the midwest. all of the way from michigan down through illinois. still watching the waters cresting in many areas. this picture is from lynn clay out of her office window. this is the water as it went through grand rapids. this was the public museum in the background. yes, that's a fish outside her window. amazing. let me show you more aerial pictures from the illinois river. this is the one river we're

still waiting for it to crest. it is going to be a slow process. getting more rain today. thousands of residents still can't get into their homes there. that's the warm side of the midwest. now let's talk about the frigid side of the midwest. last night more snow in denver, colorado. many roads were closed. a couple inches of snow. this snow has now made its way into central kansas. it is ugly out there in the midwest. let me get to the forecast to help you prepare for your day. as we go throughout the day today, illinois river will be cresting around peoria, then looks like over the next two days finally going down from here. i mentioned we do have additional rainfall that's going to come across. it is now in kansas and missouri and it is about to soak the area that's flood. it is not going really going to hurt too much but it is not going to help, either. by the way, this white and blue is moderate to heavy snow on interstate 70 just outside of kansas city this morning. it is cold. again, about a half-inch to an inch of rain over the flood zone. how about these windchills? we're talking windchill -- this is like the end of april! i shouldn't be talking about

this! 4 is your windchill in rapid city. 16 fargo. denver, 11. omaha, 17. this has been a very cruel spring in all areas there of the midwest. so your forecast today, cold where i just showed you. there's going to be airport delays. we could get some heavier rain and thunderstorms from st. louis to chicago this afternoon. maybe even indianapolis, too. and as far as boston goes, if you're up there in eastern new england you got a little ocean storm that's going to get you soaked and also kind of windy as we go throughout tonight and into tomorrow morning so be prepared for that. we leave you with a shot here of new york city. this is like our version of stonehenge. what are we calling this? human nature exhibit. big crowds down there on the plaza for the human nature exhibit. you are he's watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm probably fired now. [ male announcer ] if you can clear a crowd but not your nasal congestion,

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joining us now, the executive chairman of google, eric schmidt. >> this is big! >> yeah. we need to talk to him about katty kay. we need to find her -- well, we'll talk about that. >> as well as my google search. >> we have to talk to you about a lot of things. >> why don't we talk about the book first. director of google ideas which is google's internal think tank, jar cohen there, co-authors of the new book, "the new digital age, reshaping the future of people, nations and businesses." >> all right, eric, what's ahead? what's next? >> or how do we reshape it?

>> we think 5 billion people will come online in the next five to ten years. when these people show up a lot of really good things are going to happen and there are some things we should worry about. things that are going to happen are medicine and education. for these people this is a big deal. they're going from no information to a lot of information in one day. >> an absolute revolution. no in-between. we're going for some of these places straight from the agrarian age to the i.t. age. >> one of the things that keeps us up at night is the threat of violent extremism and terrorism. millions of people with smartphones are able to catch them in their tracks and press rewind. >> wasn't that fascinateing? >> obviously what happened in boston was a tremendous tragedy but look at what the crowd is able to do. look how they're able to track down evil and be part of a digital manhunt. >> we were talking around here

having the debate. now it seems so 2003 about closed-circuit tv. how many we have, london has them all over the place. we're sitting here the day after the attack and we're going maybe we need are more of those in boston, maybe we need more of those in new york. we forgot, we've got millions of them. >> too many. >> the citizens took pick tuesday of everything but the most interesting thing is that when the carjacking occurred the guy left his cell phone in the car and that's how the police very clever tracked the bad guys and ultimately the firefight that killed the one was the result of that cell phone. >> okay. before we move on to other big ideas, jared, as co-author of this book, you're director of google idea, former advise of to secretary of state condoleezza rice and hillary clinton, adjunct senior fellow -- he's a rhodes scholar. how old are you?

>> 31. >> stop. just stop doing that. you're making us feel inadequate. seriously. with all your -- come on. you want to just go home? >> i do. why don't they just do the show? >> so when you're 50 like me what's the world going to look like going online? >> you'll have 5 billion new people connecting to the internet. >> where is that going to be? geographically? >> the next 5 billion people are connecting in the parts of the world where you have the most conflict, the most instability and where the governance model is repressive and autocratic. we fundamentally believe that no nation in the world is worse office as a result of the internet survival so that only becomes more true in these environments. think about, this isn't islamabad coming online. think about what that does for education, for health. think about 5 billion new witnesses that can document atrocities that are being committed. of course there are challenges but there is a lot of good news ahead of us. >> everybody's empowered. you do a google search when you

go to a doctor and instead of sitting there where the doctor is playing god -- >> has all the info -- >> you have as much info as you want going in there and a lot of doctors hate that. you can say wait a second, isn't there a possibility if you do that, this is -- we are empowered in every way from powered by a car and how we're taken care of and also democratically. i had had a political science professor who told me back in the '80s the soviets were mar for worried about a xerox machine than a cruise missile in west germany and she was right. >> the empowerment of information of people is really the way to solve almost every problem. when we went to north korea our idea was that if we could just get a little bit of the internet in there it would bring some doubt to this regime, somehow let people know maybe there's another choice besides this guy and this structure. we don't know if it's happened. but if you look at other governments, that little bit of

internet allowed people to say, hey, we're not getting any economic growth, we're not getting any religious freedom. we need something better an allow them to organize. >> so where is google right now? how are you guys doing? the change that continues and the business landscape, but especially in your corner of the business landscape is just -- pretty damn radical and dramatic from net scape to yahoo! to google to facebook to apple. is apple up or is apple down. how are you guys doing? what's next for google? >> what's next is what's next for the last year, which is the shift to mobile. what we see every quarter in our business is we see more and more people moving to mobile phones and mobile tablets an moving away from personal commuters and macs. you see this in the industry. so the tools and techniques for mobility are just getting better. there's a whole new generation of companies and applications which are mobile first or mobile

only you'll carry around. these application will make your life better. some will be from google, some will be from competitors. fact of the matter is we're all becoming much more reliant on these devices. >> isn't that remarkable. i'm sure you're 99% mobile, mr. space age whiz kid. but even i, at 50, i look at this thing now -- like it is the edsel. >> it's heavy. >> i never carry that on the plane. i've now got my ipad. we're playing with the surface as well. it is lighter, it can do everything that thing can do when i'm on a plane. >> phones and tablets got to the point where they were just easier to use for the average person. you didn't have to configure them. you could type on them fast enough, et cetera. that's the future for a pretty long time, for another five, ten years. even beyond that. >> back to big picture. you guys were out together in the "wall street journal." dark side of the digital revolution. you write, in part, this -- though it is possible to curb and monitor technology, once it

is available, even the most refresive regimes are unable to put it back in the box. what does this mean for governments and would-be revolutionaries? while technology has great potential to bring about change, there is a dark side to the digital revolution that is too often ignored. there is a turbulent transition ahead for autocratic regimes as more of their citizens come online but technology doesn't just help the good guys pushing for democratic reform -- it can also provide powerful new tools for dictators to suppress dissent. >> in myanmar, in burma, where we just were, they are just opening up the internet. now you are seeing religious violence between the booedisudd and muslims. government could easily decide that religious violence is so dangerous let's shut that internet down because it is enabling it. then they'll miss out on all the benefits because they don't know how to handle the fact that people will say i don't like

this or that group. they've never had free speech. >> how does google, how do other companies that want to get into china, how do you balance the challenges of having a regime saying, no, t w, no -- you're n going to allow this or that search. that's a dance, too. isn't it? >> separately though on the autocracy point, i think to think of dictators and autocracies in the future of having a dplailemma, being anti-autocracy myself. 50% of the world's population lives under autocracy. those populations are still largely disconnected. in the next decade they'll all migrate online. sort of a form of veshl urbanization. dictator's dilemma in the future is every individual will have multiple identities and profiles online and it will create a lot of noise and activity. for dictators the challenge is going to be distinguishing between what's noise and what's

not to overreact to and what in fact is real that they need to potential address. they'll's miscalculate, they'll make mistakes and that will have the consequence of galvanizing people against them. >> eric, let me did you the question. how does google, facebook, yahoo! how do all these companies deal with china which is obviously -- has been the dream market since nixon first went to china. wanted to sell a pencil to a billion chinese now, it's gotten far more complex. how do you guys deal with the stress and strain of wanting to expand markets but also having a government that's very particular about what their citizens can search and what they can't? >> in our case we actually pulled out of china after a series of attacks on our infrastructure and because of this horrific censorship regime. >> you just couldn't deal with it. >> we couldn't take. it violated our principle. if we move to hong kong and the censorship occurs crossing to the mainland, we don't want other countries to get this

disease. in our book we talk about a danger where autocrats say in africa could buy that censorship regime in return for minerals and they could again shut down the internet. we're very concerned that this open, free internet that circles the globe could get bull calkan chopped into various pieces. >> okay. book is "the new digital age, reshaping the future of people, nations and business." read an excerpt on our blog, mojo.msnbc.com. >> could you like take up golf and waste a lot of time? you'll spend too much money. >> i'm actually terrible at golf. >> that's the idea. we want you to waste time. go home and do what i do with my -- my 4-year-old son. just watch strong bob for about three hours. you're making me feel inadequate

in every way. this afternoon visit the afternoon mojo section of our website for a web extra green room interview with eric schmidt. thanks again, guys. congratulations on the book. up next -- what america can learn from texas. author erica greeter gives her take on the strange genius of the lone star state. that's next. [ male announcer ] with free package pickup from the united states postal service a small jam maker can ship like a big business. just go online to pay, print and have your packages picked up for free. we'll do the rest. ♪ we'll do the rest. what that's great. it won't take long, will it? nah. okay. this, won't take long will it? no, not at all. how many of these can we do on our budget? more than you think.

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eggses, doritos, cheesecake, toe mali. >> now i'm going to tell you something. now sit down. what's good is to get these goats for our computer industry! i cannot wake for a medieval cookie, cinnabon, hot yellow kool-aid and save a breathsle for the gas jets. thank you. >> i love any excuse -- >> we ever talk about texas we're going to do bad lip reading with rick perry. >> let's enjoy it just for what it is, for the moment.

>> senior editor for "texas monthly," erica greeter, author of the new book out today, "big hot cheap and right." >> i love this title. >> "what america can learn from the strange genius of texas." >> big hot cheap and right. it doesn't sound exactly like -- i don't know -- doesn't sound like pulitzer prize winning book from a "new york times" author. tom friedman. he kind of goes the opposite direction. so what does -- so what does texas get right? what account rest of america learn from snx. >> the reason i wanted to write this book in the first place is the past ten years we've had this incredible story of economic growth and success in the state that other states have not been able to replicate. i thought it was worth looking at the state and seeing what's happening and whether things are working out for -- >> why is texas growing? >> well, it's got a diversified economy, increasingly not just oil or minimum wage jobs.

it's got population from around the country and around the world flooding in. about 4 million in the past ten years. it is a state that's been oriented towards economic growth and success and i think that's worked out quite well. we see the results. >> we have made fun of rick perry at times and his presidential campaign. we're not alone. the rest of america joined in, including a lot of people in texas. that said, as a governor? ruthlessly efficient when it came to fighting for and bringing jobs to the people of texas. >> i've been on this press release list for five or six years. every day, it is 40 jobs, 300 jobs, 200 jobs. it's been a pretty consistent drum beat. >> unbelievable. >> doesn't it come at some costs in terms of regulatory, environment, certainly things like that? up here the perception is it is the wild west in that sense. and sure, jobs will go there because they aren't subjected to the same regulations they are here. >> i wanted to look at that when i was writing the book to see if the other side of the equation is true. the problem is it's -- none of the things we talk about where

the state lags are new problems. on environmental standards, on education, on health, we come from a pretty low baseline. we're improving in more respects. i think there is some orientation in the state philosophically toward a lighter regulatory regime, more limited government but i don't see any problems emerging in the state over the past ten years that we haven't been grappling with over a long time. >> i saw a new york commercial, steve ratner, new york state, talking about new york, open for business. we're cutting tacks. we're cutting regulations. let me tell you something, new york needs to cut taxes. they need to cut regulations. they need to be more business friendly. it is stunning comparing new york to the state of florida that anybody still comes to new york to start a small business. >> a specific example that relates to texas -- we can debate whether it is right or wrong -- new york has yet to allow fracking. there is a ton of natural gas over the boarder in pennsylvania.

governor cuomo hasn't made up his mind and in texas they drill everywhere. >> i saw new york is doing that right now. in 2011 we got the first fracking regulation bill in the country. the disclosure law says you have to at least tell people you have to tell people what you put in the water you use to frac. in every scenario that we map out natural gas is knocking out coal. i think coal's clearly the more villainous of the two industries. if we can frac safely and effectively it is potentially a good development not just for the economy but for the environment. >> do you really think it is a good idea that andrew cuomo is dragging his feet on natural gas exploration in new york? i can tell you texas loves the fact that new york's dragging their feet. pennsylvania loves the fact that new york's dragging their feet. you think that's a good thing? >> no, i don't. guess what i'm trying to draw out from erica to the extent they thinks texas' success is a product of this more benign,

business-friendly regulatory environment or whether there are other factors that have led all those jobs to go there. >> a number of factors are at work in the state. it is not like a bargain basement clearinghouse sale of the state's land and labor. think that we actually see pretty high wages. reasonably good safety. fracking because we were so early and the state that pioneered the technique we were a state looking early into what do we need to do for water reuse or as far as disclosure in a way to makes sure we do this in a way that's sustainable. >> you that uk to atalk to any r who talks about getting jobs in their state, it is energy prices, labor prices and a regular story environment. and taxes. that's it. >> there is a u.t., texas poll talking about guns in south carolina. again where people are in background checks, what do you find in texas? >> so this is the poll from february 2013. 78% of all texans support expanding background checks.

just closing a loophole. right? not even expanding. 78% in favor including a majority of men, republicans, rural texans and tea party republicans. >> this is checks on all gun purchases. all gun purchases. which actually is a more sweeping bill than what manchin and toomey pushed forward. >> i think cornyn's the guy to look at here. cornyn has a re-election in 2014. he is not likely to face a very strong challenge in the general election from the democrats. >> when you hear the demographics in texas and changing, that it is going to become more democrats? >> i think the demographic clearly favor democrats, the youth and urbanization of the state. it is 8% urban now. the problem for dems is they have to get some candidates. looking at 2014, luckily they

have demographics on their side -- >> are you a texas native? >> i'm from san antonio. >> all right! i love -- absolutely love texas. >> it's cool. >> it takes a little long to get across west texas. i made that drive on 10 a few times. but what a great -- >> it is a good drive though. fun one. the book is "big hot cheap and right. what americans can learn from the strange genius of texas." erica grieder, thank you. >> it is just out today. pick it up at amazon.com or your favorite book store in texas. up next -- today's business headlines. cnbc's brian schactman. \ s 9 she's always been able to brighten your day.

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welcome back to business before the bell. cnbc's brian schactman, what are the markets looking like this morning? >> little bit of green, joe. good morning, everybody. three dow components all reported this morning and all reported better than expect numbers. travelers, dupont and united technologies. all doing better than expected. if we were to open right now we'd be up about 60 points. couple items to talk about. internet sales tax which used to be considered the amazon loophole. it cleared a procedural hurdle in the senate yesterday and it could get a vote this week and obama supports levying that tax. they say about $23 billion is lost a year with this loophole and amazon's no longer fighting this battle. actually they're so big and in so many different states that they do not even get involved in this discussion. it is ebay that's been lobbying heavily to keep this loophole in place as we all have enjoyed the

benefit from time to time. i want to also point out netflix. you want to talk about andle? it reports after the close today. netflix reported yesterday. netflix stock was at like $53 last september. it is now over $200. they almost have as many subscribers as hbo does now. the stock is up 112%. >> unbelievable! >> 112% in a year. apple's down 30%. >> brian, stop right here. look at that. steve ratner, netflix was on its last breath. they had called in the priest to read it its last rights. i don't want to overplay one thing, but suddenly the guy goes from apologizing for destroying the company to putting up house of card and suddenly everybody has to be back on -- >> he has a terrific eye. what's happening is netflix is trying to become hbo. hbo's trying to become netflix. netflix is now one of the largest cable channels in america even though it doesn't have a channel. >> that's unbelievable, brian.

>> i want to point out, they made $2.7 million in the quarter. am basically makes that in a month. but listen, i thought netflix was going the way of palm. they proved me wrong, too. >> wait, wait, wait, wait. i have a palm device. are you telling me -- what? are they going out of business? >> is it in your sock drawer? >> yeah, but i don't use my phone that much. >> cnbc's brian schactman. thank you. >> that must be why i'm not getting e-mails. angie's list is essential. i automatically go there. at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. if you want to save yourself time and avoid a hassle, go to angie's list. at angie's list, you'll find the right person to do the job you need. and you'll find the right person quickly and easily. i'm busy, busy, busy, busy. thank goodness for angie's list. from roofers to plumbers to dentists and more,

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